They're a truebreeding race.

orcs are instinctively hostile, warlike, and hateful of others, or so all the fluff seems to indicate

BECAUSE THE WORD "ORC" LITERALLY MEANS "MONSTER/DEMON" AND THEY ARE AN UTTERLY POINTLESS ADDITION TO A SETTING IF THEY AREN'T EVIL.

FUCK. THIS IS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND. STOP TRYING TO SHIT EVERYTHING UP WITH YOUR HYPOCRITICAL "NOBLE SAVAGE" PC FAGGOTRY.

I just play Orc society like Sierra Leone or Somalia.

Orcs have always kinda been the headstrong, violent type, and it's a little hard to come up with a way to be bloodthirsty AND good. They want war and conquest, most other fantasy races want peace.

That said, i love orcs. I do hate how often they are just cannon fodder, more lackeys than the true villains. It seems that there is always someone pulling the strings when it comes to orcs, using them as a tool.

>>10010342
The occasionally cunning, smart, wildly successful Orcish warlord is awesome though.

Orcs are pretty much the basis of most racism accusations against the genre of fantasy, held in contrast to elves. Orcs are dark skinned and stupid, brutal and warlike. Elves are (mostly, fuck off Drow) white as the driven snow and perfect in all things.

Not racist at all.

>>10010313
0/10

Mostly it's the fact that as a species they're usually shoehorned into the strong-but-stupid role. This does not bode well for their group decisions.

Also, because their patron god is kind of an asshole.

>>10010366

lol. Green is not even a human skin color.

>>10010366
>implying elves are perfect in anything but the shittiest of fiction

Orcs are goodguys in Elder Scrolls most of the time.

I'm sure that if you put enough effort into it, you could see racism anywhere. But yeah, orcs are stupid assholes in most settings, more fit to be mowed down by a party than anything else.

One-Eye likes it when his creations do incredibly creative violence.

Orcs like to make him happy because failure to do so is treason.

>>10010382

Most of the gods are assholes. Gruumsh just happens to be both an asshole AND retarded.

>>10010313

>NOBLE SAVAGE PC FAGGOTRY

No fun allowed amirite

Orcs = Evil is a fantasy trope and tropes can be subverted. There might be a hypothetical setting out there where Orcs are the dominant civilisation, having used their greater strength and endurance to triumph over their rivals and found a great empire.

>>10010411

...and then they're orcs in name only which added nothing at all to the setting. BRILLIANT WRITING THERE, SHAKESPEARE!

>>10010405
>Orc gods
>Paranoia Refrence

The sad thing is that this post actually makes sense. I wonder if I should play a game of Paranoia with the players as Orcs, and Communist-Mutant-whatever being shit like pacifists and the like.

>>10010431

Wait. The only change that makes is that Orcs have an Empire. Are you saying Orcs have to always be fragmentary tribes or else they stop being Orcs? That's ridiculous. Humans have progressed through different social models, why can't another sapient species?

>>10010407
It's more that he's a proactive asshole.

>>10010271
/tg/ in general doesn't like them, but i kinda like the depiction of them in Warcraft (3 mostly, if we're talking good-aligned)

In ebberron orcs are the good guys. They invented druidism and most of them hang around a hole into one of the hells not letting things out.

In shadowrun, they're just people with tusks.

ITT lets craft a highly civilized EVIL BRUTAL ORC EMPIRE.

Orcs can be good if you stick their tribe in an environment filled with chaotic evil creatures. Killing evil is good, so eventually their OBJECTIVE alignment will go to good.

>>10010453

Giving them a developed civilization requires tossing out every unique feature of the race except maybe their looks. Unless you're going to make their empire be some shit like the Drow society which is just not believable in the slightest and outright terrible writing.

>>10010508

Rome.

Next?

>>10010342

Yeah, Orcs tend to make up the armies of the BBEG, but it's less common that the BBEG him/herself is an Orc.

>>10010359

oh hell yes, i totally agree.

>>10010516
It'd work in the same way the Mongols came about, I think. Or at least, that's how I'd fluff it.

Orcs can't possibly be good guys because they're ugly.

>>10010271
Dude, if you were twice as strong as most humans without even trying, and stronger than they could EVER be if you did try, wouldn't you fuck their shit up?

Orc are basically trolls (internet trolls), they are often better fighters than humans could ever be due to their strength alone. Thus they ride into human lands for shits and giggles tearing shit up.

Occasionally one orc spots a human woman who pleases his aesthetic senses. He protects her from the worst of the raiding and then brings her back to camp. Then, after a long courtship and a ceremony, they are married.

And that's where half-orc babies come from.

>>10010508

Oh hey, it's the worst of all possible worlds! It manages to combine terrible writing and even more racism!

>>10010390

Warhammer Orcs and Orks base their seniority on how dark their skin is; there's a reason that elite unit in fantasy are called BLACK Orcs.

More classic Orcs, such as Tolkein, had dark brown/red skin, sometimes black. D&D Orcs have grey and sometimes green skin. All a lot darker than white.

>>10010490

Warcraft orcs are mostsly chaotic neutral. Only a few of them are truly good.

>>10010520
No, they'd be closer to the barbarian tribes who had equal rights - or at least, rights by strength and other such things. Civilized but structured differently.

>>10010508

Naw, since we're subverting the trope of "Orcs are evil and only care about war", let's have the Empire be Good aligned.

I think the Roman analogy works quite well - Orcs are strong and value strength, so trial by combat would be a foundation of society.

>>10010531
I'd definitely run them like Mongols. Replace horses with something more hardy, though.

>>10010587
Rhinos.

>>10010587

Dire Boars

>>10010431
You could still have them add to the setting with noble savage faggotry

make them persecuted, called orc, "monster", by the humans. There, suddenly it makes sense.

Too bad the whole "evil race, which isn't really evil" thing has been overdone so much

>>10010587
Make them ride oversized fighting chickens.

>>10010599
>>10010596
Both so good, but it needs to be fast and manueverable.

>>10010567
They could actual fit the Celtic or Norse trope well.

>>10010587
Bigger horses, bred to be able to carry the weight of a full grown male Orc, his weapons, and his family.

>>10010548
>Occasionally one orc spots a human woman who pleases his aesthetic senses
Why would orcs want to mate with ugly humans any more than humans want to mate with ugly orcs?

>>10010624

Orcs on Chocobos?

... my god...

>>10010649
That is to say, orcs should find humans as ugly as humans find orcs

Aside from being violent and evil etc etc, aren't orcs fucking retarded? INT 6 retarded? I don't see them having the brains to govern.

>>10010600

It depends on the execution though.

In WC3 I loved their "I had enough of this shit, want to settle down" mentality of thw wacraft orcs.

Then in WoW they went hurrdurr again. And made the wafer thin strawman of racism Daelin Proudmoore actually right.

Whats next making Garithos rig- oh hi there forsaken and your plagues.

Orcs in my personal setting are part of a conglomerate Holy Roman Empire-esque civilization made up of Elves, Humans and Orcs, as they all can and do interbreed, which has brought more unity. Orcs are generally middle to lower classes, humans are lower middle middle to middle, and elves are upper middle to upper class, the nobles and merchants mostly.

Also, Dwarves are asian/nordic hybrids. Halflings are Mongols.

The most terrifying force of nature that could ever happen in the magical land of Dungeons and Dragons would be forged out of the shed blood of a thousand orcs to create the singular orcish army.

The only reason it would ever happen would be if something so horribly fucked up was about to hit the Material Plane from the Far Realms that Gruumsh told the lot of them, "This is why you were created. You can and you will stop trying to make yourselves stronger by crushing the other assholes, you can and you will unite, you can and you will turn your full attention on Grigglmawth The Unspeakably Weird."

Afterward, when the other gods finally get Corellon Larethian to stop freaking out and the orcs have singlehandedly stopped the horrid entity, Gruumsh will be grinning like a shithead with the world's biggest cigar in his mouth.

"Where are your elves now?"

>>10010596
This. A thousand times this.

>>10010534

Since they aren't pretty, writers will never let orcs be anything other then evil fodder (drizzt was a pretty drow, orc drizzt would not have sold) and half-orcs will never do anything of note.

or could anyone name a female with orc blood that is not unusually attractive?

>>10010659
That means the occasional one has Int 14 though.

>>10010692
'Orcs, fuck yeah!'?

>your picture
10/10 would rage again

>>10010567

Let's say not nomadic, though. They have cities and settlements, though there would still be a decent vein of travel to it.

>>10010703
...Damn it, Google Images.

honestly evil races is pretty fucking stupid

like, do they need food, if so how do they get it

if the answer is "raiding and looting" they literally starve to death the instant they lose a battle, and not only that their population must be fucking tiny compared to the civilized races

but since "raiding and looting only" is stupid, there's probably an orcish dirt farmer somewhere, pissed as fuck that he has to give 90% of his crops to the assholes who keep causing human counterattacks to burn down the other 10%

solution: orcs live far away, the only orcs humans see are the alexander the greats/genghis khans of orcopolis

all of you god damn pulp racists get your subhuman enemies, i get my coherent motivations from characters

>>10010534

They might not be HEROES, but they might be wizened mentors or strongman sidekicks.

>>10010717
If 10 is average, 12 is above average and 14 exceptional for a human, then 14 for an orc must be einstein level of genius. There's a lot of governing jobs and not a lot of einsteins.

>>10010730
the Barbarian tribes wern't nomadic. The majority of them had large settlements.

>>10010729

You lost me.

>>10010587
Tarrasques

Fucking Orcs, how do they work? And I don't wanna talk to a Dungeon Master. Y'all fuckers lying, and being real bastards.

>>10010742
They are only 'labelled' as 'evil' for convienience.

I call it an alternative system of morality.jpg

>>10010659

I thought Orcs had a penalty to Charisma? Or is that half-Orcs?

Orcs in the campaign I'm playing in are pretty badass.
The whole "green-skin" thing is explained by them being descended from storm giants.
It's pretty cool.

>>10010772

Yeah I know, but some other voices in this thread were arguing for nomadic and I thought that could do being left on the shelf.

How about a civilised orc nation with highly ritualized violence? Can you imagine an orc`s gentleman duel?

HAVE AT THEE YOU COWARD HAVE AT THEE

>>10010798
"Evil" sounds a lot better than "Socially acceptable to massacre"

>>10010548
You mean abduction and rape.

>>10010806
I fucking love storm giants

In my setting Orcs are ancestors of Giants and sort of a half-way between Dwarves and Elves. They live in ornate cities carved from rock face and massive trees. They're a militant society based around ancestor worship and honor. They often work as mercenaries and body guards for the extremely rich and powerful and act as samurai and warlords, commanding troops that they are supplied.

Orcish fighting is based on refined technique and graceful movements and are masters of close combat fighting and ballet. They prefer to be tactically ahead of their opponents and well armed.

Orcish armor and weapons is highly valued for it's durability that rivals Dwarven blacksmiths and it's intricate designs.

They do not Hold racial animosity to Elves or Dwarves, but do inevitably clash because they're territories are often right next to each other. But they do trade often for raw supplies and goods. Orcs are poor farmers and brewers. They Integrate well with humans and can cross breed with them easily since humans are also decedents of giants. Half-humans are produced from Human Men and Female orcs and are half-orcs are from Female Humans and Orcish fathers.

>>10010845
I like Frost Giants more, but Storm Giants are awesome.

>>10010826
Instead of sabres and foppery, it's stripped to the waist and orc double axes.

>>10010548

>after a long "courtship" and a "ceremony" they are "married"

All of those words in practice mean rape.

I wish I had a nickel for every time this thread is made.

>>10010828
Well, you might as well label the confederate south evil, or nazi germany evil.

In the end morality doesn't exist, it's defined by us. We make it up. What we call 'evil' is what we the victors see as unacceptable.

>>10010866

Well, in the cases of duels that aren't to the death they might use clubs.

Wait.

>implying Orcs would ever not duel to the death
>implying Orcs wouldn't kill each other with clubs anyway

Wait, never mind.

I love Eberron's Orcs. Badass druidic warriors or exploitative mining barons who employ monster mercenaries and can find anyone, for the right price.

>>10010879
I wish I had a nickel for every time you were a huge faggot.

>>10010879

Then you'd have a nickel!

>>10010879

I wish you did, too, Nofunallowed "Botdot" Jay-Peg.

Then you'd be too busy managing your finances to be here.

>>10010879
I wish I had a nickle for every time you made a pointless, non-contributing post

>>10010885
I'd say that the use of the Axe is the highest form of duel, and is always to the death. Lesser forms might be with broadswords and shields (like the celtic Irish) or daggers, or unarmed, and be to first blood or first maim. Taking an eye in a duel is propably really prestigious, because Gruumsh, and experienced or professional duellists almost always only have one eye.

>>10010548

And yet I can see Orc society being really fiercely regulated BECAUSE of their strength. Think about it. You're strong, sure, but the people in charge got that way by being stronger. They stay in power by being stronger than anyone who challenges their authority. Ergo, you fucking follow the rules and shit gets done as a result.

I just wish I had a nickel. I'm broke as shit.

Charismatic leader of the Orcs.

One level in monk. Many more in bard.

>>10010649
they're like furries

I had a half-ork that was into books, cooking, dorf fortressan and empire buildan. Wanted to gain experience in the non-frozen south, Peter the Great-style, return home, unite tribes, form Russia, fuck some neighbour kingdom up if possible.

I don't give a shit about alignments, I didn't kill the lolrandumb kleptomaniac in the group only because of politeness OOC, I would've fried and eaten it whole otherwise.
First I wanted him to be whack racist against elves but character progression, and fighting alongside a pretty rad half-elf detective/ranger changed that.

So, yeah, if you'd consider kender-cooking and EUIII-style shenanigans "good", I guess Zogk fit.

Also, a /tg/ favourite; a stable, loving family background.

>>10010313
you can be tough and warlike and meet most orcish stereotypes without being evil though

>>10010949
no that s frankensten

>>10010940

Any victory that disables, but doesn't kill the foe, preferably leaving a scar, is probably the highest form of honour in a duel. It shows that you CAN kill but DON'T. It could also be an insult, that your opponent isn't worth you killing.

>>10010865
Also Orcs tend to be grey in color, with green skin being a rarity.

Honor is the most important aspect of an ORc, without honor, his spirit dies since his deeds do not go unrecorded.

Honor to an Orc is neither Good or Bad, It's their word for remembrance. Those with high honor have their likeness recorded on paintings and carvings and their stories recorded in the great libraries.

Those with the greatest honor are the Warrior and Politicians. Second are often merchant kings and explorers who found cities.

Derp.

>>10010865
WOOOH
MORE GIANT-ORCS

>>10010984
Samurai orc?

>>10010990
Those aren't worth mentioning/discussing.

>>10010865
>half-way between Dwarves and Elves
So they're humans.
Lame.

>>10010972
Losing an eye is prestigious though, because it emulates Gruumsh. Any ideas?

>>10010990

>BAAAW I JUST WANT PEACE AND UNDERSTANDING WHILE MY SUBORDINATES MAIM AND KILL MY NEIGHBORS.

>>10010883
>Implying the Confederates where anything like the Nazis.

So sad that you're not even trolling.

>>10011024

Dwarves are potatoes. Elves are carrots.

Humans are V8.

>>10011024
lol what?

>>10010649

Well, since we have Orcs and humans (and maybe elves) being 'sister' species, able to interbreed it makes sense that there should be some attraction possible. They're close enough to each other in appearance and anatomy that they can breed, after all, as are donkeys and horses.

Maybe half Orcs are ligers, or mules.

>>10010658
orcs find hot the females humans find ugly

>>10011013
More or less that's the idea, they value honor and craftsmanship. They aren't racially evil, but they can be just as bad as any other race has the potential.

They tend to be disliked by dwarves and elves because they simply share boarders, but also are liked because they are heavy importers of food and exotic materials.

So, Orcs typically crush weaker races, but what if instead of that they protect them? They see it like a parent protecting a child because the child is too small and weak to do it themselves, but will one day grow into something great and strong. So the Orcs protect the humans, because they know that one day the humans will become strong.

>>10011042
Humanity, fuck yeah.

>>10011101
I don't find this shit logical, but in a Roman-style Empire I could see non-Orcish auxilliares.

>>10011101

Alternatively, the orcs are attempting to teach humanity to defend itself by applying ridiculous amounts of force to them.

"GODDAMMIT, WHY ARE YOU RUNNING AWAY? PICK UP THAT HALF-FORGED SWORD AND FIGHT ME! FUUUUUUCK, DON'T MAKE ME CHASE YOOOOOUUU"

>>10011038
No, I'm just raising them as two regions of the world with alternate systems of morality that lost.

>>10011132

The Orcs are like the over-aggressive drill sargeant to the humans quivering farm-boy recruit. Shouty, abusive (especially the ladyfolk) but ultimately with a good goal.

Actually, we just explained why Orcs keep bedding human women - to strengthen the bloodline. Even if this generation of humans are spineless, with a bit of Orc in them the next generation will be better.

>>10011024
Humans in my settings are relatively new race descended from a splinter faction of Giants who were outcasts from the jungle world that orbits the same sun and is magically connected to their planet though portals.

Orcs are the result of ancient Giants immigrating from the planet's moon and settling on the main planet and over the course of history grew smaller and smaller until they were a reasonable humanoid size.

>>10011129

More like Orcxillaries!

...

I'll leave.

>>10011227

I think that's for the best.

>>10011178

I hate you.

>>10011239
Why?

>>10011166

>over-aggressive drill sergeant to the humans quivering farm-boy recruit

"YOU ARE ALL NOW MINE, COMPLETELY AND IN ALL MEANINGS OF THE PHRASE. WHEN I TELL YOU TO JUMP, YOU WILL NOT HESITATE TO THROW YOURSELF INTO THE LINE OF BATTLE TO MERCILESSLY ELIMINATE YOUR OPPONENT IN THE THEATRE OF WAR. WHEN I SCREAM AT YOU, YOU WILL LISTEN HARDER THAN YOU HAVE LISTENED TO ANYTHING IN YOUR LIFE, EAGER TO LEARN WHAT I AM SO GRACIOUSLY TEACHING YOU. WHEN I HURT YOU, YOU WILL THANK ME FOR GIVING YOUR WEAKNESS AN EXIT FROM YOUR MORTAL SHELL.

"DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR, MAGGOTS?"

the central concept of an orc is something good twisted into something evil and hateful. Orcs definitely have more of an evil flavor than elves or dwarves have a good flavor -- afterall, in LotR, the dwarves were Neutral Incarnate, and the elves were only still in the world because they made a deal with Goddamn Sauron.

>>10011252

Because he's a teenager on the internet of course.

>>10011266

I'M ONLY FOUR

D:

>>10011275

So there is good there. Who's to say that what's evil can't be.. unsnarled back to something good?

In the campaign I am going to be running, the largest city around will be an Orc city. The Orc's will be leaning towards the CG area and will be advance and noble. Goblins will also be important and will be in the LN area. The society puts a great deal of importance on contracts.

Elves will either be slaves in major cities or be in very primitive tribes (No metal work and weak understanding of Magic and Technology)

>>10011316

FOUR? FOUR!?!?!?! I'D KILLED MY FIRST HILL GIANT WHEN I WAS FOUR!! SMASHED HIS GODSDAMNED SKULL AGAINST THE BEDROCK AND THEN CHOKED HIM TO DEATH WITH A SPIKED CHAIN! THATS WHAT ORCS CALL HOMEWORK! NOW PICK UP THAT MORNINGSTAR AND DONT YOU DARE SHOW YOUR FACE TO ME UNTIL YOU'VE GOT A DOZEN KOBOLD HEARTS TO SHOW ME

>>10011275
Right, but I didn't like that trope and reworked them into something neutral since inherently evil makes for a bad character race. Players are either forced to play Drizzit or evil shitheads with the characters.

>>10011275
>the central concept of an orc is something good twisted into something evil and hateful.

How can you do that if they're pure evil? Usually orcs aren't represented as misguided, they're represented as literally taking joy in everything that's horrible. They should be fascists, not utter sociopaths.

>>10011101
usually i like the GW's take of orcs and gobblins living in mixed comunities, whit orcs filling mostly the military ans heavily physical jobs and gobbos the finesse ones like crafts.

however i dislike the whole "big dumbs force cunning littles intto submition, little ones keep backstabbing " side, I'd give them a bigbrother-little fella kinda relationship, whit mixed housings and life-long friendships, but not sick pedolike interbreeding.

>>10011266
>>10011316
>>10011343

1274656712529.gif" target="_blank">1274656712.gif-(160 KB, 640x462, st1-klingon.gif)

ITT: Klingons and Half Klingons.

Klingons are probably the most common non-human Star Trek race, just ahead of Vulcans and Ferengi, but they're almost invariably the bad guys. Half Klingons can be good, but they tend to be the product of, well, rape. Why is this, /tg/? What is it about Klingons that automatically makes them bad guys? And have there been any good-aligned Klingons worth mentioning/discussion other than Worf?

>>10011613

>They are probably redeemable, but either way, that is the core idea of orcs.

I like to imagine that orcs would probably give you a funny look if you managed to keep them from killing you, only to squander that opportunity to try to teach them to be Good.

"Chivalry! Courtesy! Defense of the weak! Truth! Honor! Justice!"
"... Why? Nobody gets anywhere like that. I'm amazed you got the strength of arm to defeat even a single orc when everyone treats each other so gently where you're from."

>>10011615
I never said anything to the contrary. I only explained why Tolkien's orcs are not possible to uncorrupt, and why OP's question is dumb.

>>10011613

>probably redeemable

Yeah, no. Tolkein was a bit of a retard morally.

>>10010531
I can see Zizek holding orc balls while they rape his wife.

>>10011705
itt: worf is drizzt

>>10011733
Oh, you are my new favourite Anonymous.

>>10011740

So which one is supposed to be Jarlaxle?

>>10011729

And since Tolkein, Orcs have been reimagined and changed. Ideas aren't sacred and they aren't immutable. They change and are changed. Tolkein's Orcs don't exist outside of LoTR. So stop trying to shoehorn in Tolkeinian ideas of what an Orc should be into a non-Tolkein situation.

>>10011733
>>10011747

Oh, you are my new favourite namefag

>>10011700
Except that everybody hates Drow. Because they are retarded.

>>10011613
core themes are: servile but strong, emocruel but manly about it, could become "not so bad" if a lot of external factors change. key physical attributes are anthropoid physique, bad teeth, heavyset bodies. recurring cultural factors are warlike disposition, low cunning, preference for the simple and functional, predisposed to live in baboon-like bands whit a big leading male who exerts dominance trough violence and a bunch of servile but equally violent relatives.

we can still change lots of shit keeping all of these in place and they'll feel "orc"

>>10011678

>>10011641
Tolkien's orcs aren't really that fond of war. They like killing people and taking stuff and eating meat (the origin of which being less important), but they're also cowards. No orc willingly puts himself in danger.
This goes with Tolkien's ideas of being bad and evil and horrible, of course.

>>10011700
From a literary perspective, drow aren't elves, they're the Black Men of Barsoom shoehorned half assedly into D&D.

>Why do Orcs have to be evil?

Because their power is physical and fantasy caters to nerds, who have been bullied by the physically superior jocks for most of their lives. In order to feel better about themselves, the wheezing, sweating basement-trolls must create some monstrous beast of bulk and muscle for the witty self-insert hero to overcome. Anyone who values strength and athletic prowess cannot be good, because they cause too many swirly-flashbacks.

>>10011751
i have no idea because i do not follow retarded bullshit in any way other than accidentally absorbing details of it here

>>10011795
Who are the Green Men? Red Men are obviously elves.

>>10011791
uruk-hai would have a word with you.

In LotR, orc and goblin mean the same thing.
In D&D, orcs and goblins are quite different.

>>10010376
he's actually right though

>>10010548
Well, if by "protect from the worst" you mean "others instead of me doing the rape would be bad", and if by courtship you mean impregnation, and if by marriage you mean making her pop out 4 half orks every 3 years, yes.

As for why they'd be considered attractive; probably for the same reason people want to fuck Tali, elf girls, centaur girls, catgirls and the occasional halfling.

If its bipedal and also has secondary sex characteristics, another bipedal somewhere wants to fuck it.

I wouldn't mind an ork girl in most cases if she was at least clean and shaven. Well, a petite one.

>>10011705
worf ain't worthy of discussion

>>10011761
You keep missing my point, do you? I never asked why they should be changed. I never said they shouldn't be. Why do you keep projecting this idiocy on me?

>In order to feel better about themselves, the wheezing, sweating basement-trolls must create some monstrous beast of bulk and muscle for the witty self-insert hero to overcome.

0/10, orcs were not strong or burly until 3e, whereupon they also became an excellent choice for a PC barbarian (and THE best core choice)

>>10011834
get out

AGE OF WONDERS
ORCS HAVE AN EMPIRE AND HAVE TOTALLY LEGIT REASONS FOR ACTING THE WAY THEY DO
WHAT NOW

>>10011841

>OP asks for discussion of subversions of Orc-tropes
>Troll says question is bad and he should feel bad for asking it
>????
>Not saying Orcs shouldn't be different?

>>10011613
I agree with some of your argument but not the part where each race has only one central premise. Making dwarves floating angels who smoke pot all the time would be retarded. Making them samurai fits perfectly well with their theme of being extremely Lawful, and is not retarded. Making them backstabbing scumbags that forge the best damn armor in the world would not be retarded, because although it contradicts their Lawful theme it still fits in with their smith theme.

Making orcs that aren't evil is fine as long as they are tough or warlike or any number of the other things that orcs are associated with.

>>10011825

But Jarlaxle is the manliest of man-drow.

Upon exiting the Underdark, he immediately started collecting money and disregarding women in every way he could.

>>10011817
swirlies don't incapacitate, maim or hospitalize, what kind of pussy ass bullies do you have over there?

>>10011829
Uruk-Hai are super-orcs genetically engineered to be bigger, stronger, braver and smarter. This accomplished by mixing in some human. As you say, orc and goblin mean the same thing in Tolkien's works, and the orcs aren't really that physically impressive. Many of them are actually rather pathetic. By warrior standards, anyway.

>>10011863
uh they do? last I checked almost every race in that game was arbitrarily designated as pure good or pure evil.

even the religious zealot race was classifed as "good" and they're so "good" that they hate neutral races, which makes zero sense to me

>>10011826

Hmmm, can't think of any clear analogies.

>last I checked almost every race in that game was arbitrarily designated as pure good or pure evil.

Only the Hymen, Angels, Undead, and Demons are pure good or pure evil, derpy.

>>10011880
No, OP asked "Why is this race that was invented to be evil nearly always depicted as evil?"
If you can't see why that's a dumb question...

>>10011700
Drow are immortal, decadent, and elitist though. They're still elves, just some of the details are switched around.

Human: New Race, only around for about 1000 years. Quickly caught up to the three other main races because their heartiness and ability to cultivate land that the other races have labeled as wastelands.

The three main types of human societies are Islanders who live on volcanically active islands and utilize the rich soil to grow crops and trade Rum, a human delicacy favored heavily by Orcs and Dwarves. Orc do not generally travel by sea, preferring land trade. There practically not half-orcs in these societies but often Half-humans can be found in port cities on the mainlands.

Desert Folk irrigate major rivers into their lands to grow crops and handle river shipping for many of the other races since they developed a series of locks and damns to make navigation much easier. Very few Half-Orcs/humans since Orc societies do not typically exist near rivers, instead they send caravans rivers and intercept human vessels for trading.

The other type are just regular humans who either formed their own kingdoms in unexplored lands or took over others by force or just outnumbering the old inhabitants. These are the humans that often produce Half-Orcs/humans since they interact with them the most directly.

>>10011343
So, this one time, boldlings, I saw Ktlern walking out in the field. She had gone into the low heat and was obviously feeling romantic, as she touched her nose all the time. She saw a four year old human child, frolicing in the field with a ball that menaced with spikes of obsidian. She gazed on him, full of passion, and then he swung his ball and RIPPED OUT HER HEAAAAAAAAAART.

>>10011619

The children of the sleepy hamlet of Darrion Dales often kick a dusty old ball about in the street. But when their ball lands on the land of old farmer Bloodaxe, all the colour drains from their normally-rosy cheeks...

>>10011953
Oh yeah, and they adhere to the core concepts of the Svartalfar (sp?), "black underground elves who have phat lewt," so they're valid.

Not sure about the immortal part though.

>>10011917
No, the Uruk-Hai were intended to be more disciplined. The super orcs were the Black Orcs of Mordor.

>>10011705

Basically, this. Orcish civilisation just turns into fantasy Klingons, stubborn and belligerent and always banging on about honour and the glory of a death in battle.

Orcs suck at civilisation because they're perma-angry - no orc leader can hold them together long enough to form a civilisation, because there's always a bunch of up-and-coming orcs who want his job (best food, best living quarters, best bitches) who'll whack him and take his place the moment his grip falters. On top of that they're not very bright and don't live very long, and you're pretty much out of luck.

Leave the civilisation stuff to the hobgoblins, they fill the organised/disciplined/cooperative niche very well. Orcs do best as the nomadic warriors, raiders and pillagers who sweep in, steal food, valuables and womenfolk, and sweep out again.

If you think a 100% raiding culture is unfeasible then model them on Vikings - they live in the marginal regions that aren't so fertile, so they spend the summers farming what they can, and in the winters when there's no farming to be done they tool up and go raid the shit out of the humans. This serves two purposes - first off, you don't have a bunch of strong, aggressive knuckleheads hanging around the village with nothing better to do than pick fights with one another; secondly, there's a good chance they'll bring back food and loot to improve the tribe's chances of survival over the winter.

>>10011949
If elves and halflings were only "good" instead of "pure good" then why the fuck is every single hero of their race good? And how come if I'm evil I can't brainwash them to serve me without revolting (and inexplicably changing the entire stack of evil units they were in to their side)?

Age of Wonders was not morally complex. Get over it.

>>10011998

>Orcs suck at civilisation because they're perma-angry

Uh, no? As a species, they have shorter tempers but they would have WIPED THEMSELVES OUT if they were permanently angry. They would have a full emotional spectrum and self control or they'd die out. They'd never BREED for one thing.

Unless it was hatesex. Delicious hatesex.

>>10011998

If you really wanted to model them after the Vikings, couldn't you also feature one king calling upon them for help against another larger kingdom, promising them both an excellent fight and more than enough food to last the winter?

"GUYS, WE NEED HELP"
"So?"
"GUYS, WE NEED HELP AND YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO STOMP US IN THE WINTER IF YOU DON'T BECAUSE THE OTHER GUY IS GOING TO KILL US ALL"
"So?"
"GUYS, THESE OTHER GUYS THINK THEY'RE STRONGER THAN YOU ARE AND WE'LL GIVE YOU--"
"BULLSHIT, WHERE ARE THEY?"

>>10010649
I'd hit an orc. I've got a humanoid monster fetish, though, so take that as you will.

1274658275422.jpg" target="_blank">1274658275.jpg-(48 KB, 525x495, so goddamn eigthies.jpg)

so, can love bloom?

>>10012097
Well, no. You don't get good orcs while Sauron is around, because he's mindraping them all. And definitely not in Mordor (which then ceases to be a place where, well, anything at all lives).
They'd be off in the far off mountains somewhere, and in wastelands and places nobody else goes.

>>10012061

What? I'm talking about the disciplined militaristic D&D hobgoblins. Still cruel and brutal like orcs, but better at working together and directing that brutality at outsiders, rather than each other.

Honestly, if you want a credible new take on orcs, get rid of the "every race can interbreed" shit. If humans and orcs can interbreed, they are the same species or they somehow have magic sex that makes magic half babies. It's the oldest fucking cliche in the fantasy genre.

>>10012154

>cumans

THOSE FUCKING GUYS

>>10012000
The mechanics weren't. I was talking about fluff.

>>10012154

The guys who eventually assimilated into the hungarians?

Not conquered, defeated, vanquished. Assimilated. They became hungarians in less than a century after they were called in.

>>10011510

Pirate Jew Orcs

Need Drawfag NAO

In one campaign I'm working with, orcs analog to pre-Islam Middle East, with the tribalism and their semi-shamanistic dervishes and such. The Half-orcs are actually turning into the more ...I want to say noble-aspiring, but that's not quite the right word. Good-intentioned is closer, but still not quite it.

Before people start screaming 'SAND NIGGERS', I should clarify. The reason for the patterning is that the full blooded orcs can be and often are savage, superstitious, tribalistic, and not inclined to cooperating amongst themselves, never mind with any outsider races. They live in the harsher end of the land conditions, and they tend to not have a problem having their wa with those taken in raids, or who are trespassers left to die in exile by the frontier nations closest to them. The number of women left to die in such conditions are far fewer than the men, so usually the humans found as such end up slaves, which makes them one of the few things lower on the societal totem pole, among the orcs, than the women. The society is sexist, because that's how things are among them.

>>10012253 continued


The resultant half-breeds, regardless of parent, are on average smarter than their parents, even if not necessarily as strong. They also have, instead of a perpetual case of the ''woe is me I'm ugly and weak', a sense of shame of self, coupled with a burning drive to not only prove themselves, but to outsmart and outmaneuver their kin. They're more about the sexual equality, however, as they see it as necessary to survive in their situation. They're the ones gradually taking over society, in a covert way, by making themselves useful, necessary, and the power behind the local powers. They also play up their perceived weakness, the better to be go unsuspected under most circumstances. The half-orcs are forming a very restrictive sort of sub-culture, embracing the covering of the female flesh as part of the self-perceived shame of their legacy and the belief that self-control is so lacking in the society that it is necessary, and the males are similarly inclined to conceal themselves, though that is also as much to keep the pure bloods from being able to assess the half-breed's physique and strength as easily. For their part, the full orcs are finding that, with the burden of thinking and leading being gradually lifted off of their shoulders, they can enjoy life to the fullest and leave the hard stuff to the punier half-breed offspring.

And that's just they way both sides are finding they like it.

Orcs are the manliest manly men with 12" dicks. Once you go Orc, you will never go back.

>>10012154

>Another interesting feature of the Cumans was their elaborate masks which they used in battle (they were shaped like and worn over the face. Some of the masks had mustaches).

>Some of the masks had mustaches).

I'm sold.

>>10012220

Oh yeah, they did that. In fact, they starte out as a tribal alliance and kept assimilating more and more tribes, neighbors and nomads like carpathian borgs.

>>10012182
hob-goblins are hogging the place what rightfully should be for orcs!!... wait, campaign idea; you and the pary are a group of young and uppity orcs who are convinced everythin wrong in the world is because of those blasted hobgoblins, your mission is to genocide them and raise orkind into the continent-spaning empire you always knew it should be.

Orcs as Romans. Discipline, ordered, Imperialistic.

>>10012095

So they value strength. So did every human civilisation ever.

Again, the fact arises that if they only had strength to go by, they'd die out. They've evolved to only slightly less intelligent than a human and have the same social abilities. They wouldn't do that unless they'd learned the value of intelligence and co-operation as well as strength.

>>10012061

>hobo-goblins

Man, that gives it a whole new light.

>>10012295
>Implying a woman would even consider taking a dick over eight inches if she wasn't getting paid.

>>10012296
The advantage to using Cumans is that they've got the whole "EASTERN" thing. Orcs are fundamentally a reaction to Slavic invaders. Knights versus Orcs is the Teuton chivalric crusader societies butchering slavic peasants.

>>10012198
Human-interbreeding is viable since they can be a offshoot race or one of the original races.

My setting based off the idea that humans and Orcs can interbreed exclusively since they are both decedent form giants. The Giants in my setting are from another planet and colonized the solar system before dying out. The humans were refugees from he last line of the giants who settled on mainlands of the planet and generations of adapting have shrunken them down to normal size. Orcs were originally the same line of Giants, but they colonized the arctic moon orbiting the planet and adapted to the harsh environment over many generations until they discovered a portal to the mainland where they began to settle alongside the emerging Dwarven and Elven kingdoms.

>>10012357
That's the name of a band.

>>10012374

>implying a woman would even consider taking a dick under 8" if she wasn't being paid.

>>10011967
yay, destroy the pedobolds

>The mechanics weren't. I was talking about fluff.

In terms of fluff, you're patently wrong. Regardless of whether you start as good or evil, you can wind up allied with the Undead or with the Highmen. Yes, a pudgy good hearted halfling can wind up leading a goddamn army of the undead to exterminate all life.

>>10012384

>cumans

>slavs

Lolwut? They were turkic.

>>10012374
or smaller than 6 for that matter. at any rate bitches hate sex and only agree to it in their own terms and even then they have very specific parameters in order to enjoy it at all.

>>10012296

>Some of the masks had mustaches

they are still doing that

1274663929934.jpg" target="_blank">1274663929.jpg-(77 KB, 500x400, Orcsmotivator.jpg)

>>10013916

Someone with a fancy hat/cape/giant axe tells you to do something? It's easier to just do it than worry about the ramifications of whatever action he's commanding you to do. If we assume a sort of caste-system, the typical suspects are Priest, Warrior, and Worker, although they can be subdivided into multiple groups. Given their distaste for religion, Priests might not be a valid caste. Perhaps they develop some sort of rudimentary divination magic to tell them what to do, so those in the highest caste are the Diviners, who rule the new nation through animal entrails/stars/bird flights/etc. Then is the Warrior caste, then the Craftsmen, then the Laborers. As always, there's tweaking to be done.

>>10013969
He's trading that bread for the kid's ear.

>>10013969
except those are child prostitutes

>>10013818

So, Orcs are actually quite used to physical work like construction, farming and the military; that's what Not-Sauron used them for, and it's what they're good at. This means that an Orc city is sturdy and well built, although not very ostentatious. It's practical - they build what they need and that's it. They'll figure out how to do the fiddly luxury bits later. It's practical and it's strong - good stone, built to last a seige. It probably even has an uncomfortable resemblance to Not-Sauron's old Castle Of Fear, since that's the last thing the Orcs all got together to build.

In terms of more abstract and esoteric trades, however, the Orcs aren't so good. For instance, you'll find a dozen Orcs who can work in a quarry, but none that can make sculptures. You might be able to find some particularly bright ones that served as lieutenants to Not-Sauron, but they mostly died during the war. So Orcs have very little in the way of art or decoration. They have trophies taken from notable hunts and kills, and maybe some simplistic paintings. That's about it. Their buildings are bare stone, their clothes rough hide and fabric. But the more they mimic humans, the more little things creep in - where a human might wear a full outfit of many colours and different fabrics, an Orc wears the same outfit garment-wise, except it's all hide and one colour.

>>10014136

Since they've lost most heirarchy following the war, there may be a chaotic, pseudo-anarchist thing going on. Every Orc has a say in how the city is run in theory. Assuming he can be heard over the shouting of the others, that is. In practice, however, it's quite different. Sometimes an Orc will get it into his head to appoint himself the new.. chief, or president, or King, or whatever the human title they particularly like the sound of. And pretty much all you need to do is declare it, and then you are it. You say you're chief? Fair enough, what're your orders? The Orcs accept it, glad to have someone in charge. Competition is rare, especially since most Orcs are fine having two people in charge just as much as they are having one.

Eventually, you get a Ruling Caste of some description, the people who have ruled because they've always ruled and that's what their parents did. Theoretically, all you need to do to join the Ruling Caste - or any caste, really - is to declare your intent to and then start acting like you mean it.

>>10012029

OH MY GOD THE RAGIANS

A RACE THAT IS ALWAYS SUPER ANGRY

"DEAR BRAKFAST IS FUCKING READY!!!!!"
"FUCK DAMN COCK SHIT I HATE BREAKFAST!!!!"
"SMASH BREAK FUCK SHIT!!!"

>>10012169

WAIT

....avatar?

>>10014221

"And now we observe the Ragians in their natural habit. Majestic creatures. We're very lucky to observe their mating ritual, as they often are too busy in territorial disputes to actually breed. Now we see the male mounting the female and.. yes, yes, she's torn his cock off."

>>10014221
>>10014234
There's a hilarious archive thread about the 'Raging Swimmer' Pathfinder feat.

'HOLY FUCK I'M SO MAD GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY WAY FAGGOT WATER'

>>10014221

You are missing Tourettes with anger.

Swearing like a ten year old isnt anger.

>>10014256

"Well, there goes the last breeding pair of the species. The Ragians are now doomed to extinction, to the sound of Charles Darwin clapping slowly."

>>10013602
>>10013818
>>10013997
>>10014136
>>10014184
>>10013337

From the ashes where the thread had degenerated to trolling, actual content arises!

>>10014474

Don't get your hopes up. At this point the thread is soon to autosage and die. And what little virtue it has isn't worth archiving.

>>10010271
Because they're the perfect race to use for the bad guys' mooks. They're ugly, and don't look too human. Tolkien originally constructed them to be his race of token-bad-guys. You don't have to use them as your token race of bad guys. But they fit the job well enough. So let them be.

That and if you DON'T use them as bad guys, everyone's going to call you a Metzen. You don't want to be called a Metzen. It's pretty well the lowest name someone can be called, as far as creative writing goes. Especially when it comes to writing a setting. It's down there with Stephanie Meyer.

Metzen did write a hell of a story for his Paladins though. It wasn't very creative, but it was well told.

>>10014643

>Metzen

Actuall, he is a pretty sucessful lore writer,voice actor and he has his own rock band.

In before jealously

>BUT MY SUPER SPECIAL NECKBEARD IDEA IS TEN TIMES AS GOOD

New Thread
>>10014970

>>10015289
jealousy? lol no.... the people who dislike Metzen's late warcraft lore are mainly people who liked his earlier lore.

>>10014643
These days, I'm pretty sure being called a Mat Ward is worse than being a Metzen.

harmony harmony oh love

>>10014643

Can you elaborate more? So whats up with Chris Metzen? Is it that he's universally derided, or what?

Garona Halforcen looks pretty nice

i treat orcs more like one of the more warlike tribes of native americans. they have a culture but still embrace their savage nature. some might kill you just for the hell of it, but most would let you be unless you're fucking with them somehow of have something they really want.

IT'Z CUZ ALL DEM PUNY RUNTS IZ JELOUZ OF US ORKZ! WE IZ DA SUPERIOR RACE AN DEYZ KNOWZ IT!