Not much they all mirror each other.

I imagine the loyalist team that would end most well for the Imperium would be:

Blood Angels (Strongest Primarch)
Ultramarines (Most numerous)
Imperial Fists (Best defenders)
Thousand Sons (Best Psykers)
Emperor's Children (best leftover 1)
Dark Angels (Best during the early days of the crusade)
Sons of Horus (best of the best)
Space Wolves (best leftover 2)
Alpha Legion (Smartest Legion)

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/heresy/thedornianheresy.pdf

Did I just blow your ever loving mind.

But what would we call it then?
The Sanguinus Secession?
The Roboute Rebellion?
The Dorn Defiance?

>>16471115
The Dornian Heresy.

>>16471115
The Blood (Angels) Blasphemy

I vote The Roboute Rebellion

>>16471089
Ultramarines and Alpha Legion on same side is retarded.

I'd say worse, but it's hard to honestly say. Too many successor chapters to factor in if it'd all be fine and dandy in the end.

Though reversing would mean we'd lose the friendly neighborhood black marines. And that would be terrible.

>>16471104
Why the hell aren't the blood angels following khorne?

All I know is that stil nobody would know what side the Dark Angels and Alpha Legion are on.

>>16471206
I am willing to accept this loss for the gain of a batman chapter.

>>16471115
Roboute is probably the best parrallel to Horus on the loyalist's site, so probably go with him leading them.

>>16471311
Dark Angels would be clearly Chaos with few loyalist splinter groups on the run.

Alpha Legion would be observably Loyal with Ultramarines up in the air opposing them.

>>16470798
honestly?

The idea of a daemon prince roboute, russ, sanguinius and dorn scare me a lot more than the current line-up of daemon princes.

You also have to think that without the ultramarines and there incredible numbers there wouldn't be nearly as many chapters. Without roboute the codex astartes would have never been penned meaning that any cases of marines turning heretic would likely be on much larger scales than currently happens (due to the legions never being broken into chapters meaning that many more than 1000 marines would turn at one time.)

Without the administrative capabilities of the ultramarines chapter there would likely be a lot of problems in the ultima segmentum and there would be far reaching problems throughout the entire sector.

The imperium would be much worse off

>>16471268
Because they are ridiculously loyal to the emperor. Blood lust for a higher purpose is non Khorne as I understand it.

Loyalist Word Bearers?

Non-Chaos Thousand Sons sorcerers??

>>16471379
My Spiritual Liege Horus would prevent this,

>>16471646

Yeah, that's true.

You'd have a loyal Horus being just as unbelievably awesome as the Emperor Himself. You'd have Magnus not accidentally ruining the webway project.

And more Importantly you wouldn't have Lorgar and Erebus converting every Tom, Dick and Harry within earshot to Chaos.

In fact, if it were the other way around, things might have gone a whole lot better.

>>16471330
Batman chapter with Alpha Legion and Thousand Sons.
Think of how glorious if these three truly joined hands.

Well, Gulliman would turn because the Emprah was showering too much attention on Horus and forgetting who the real brains of the unit was. The Sons of Horus would end up filling a lot of the Ultramarine's roles.

The Alpha Legion would be the "tactics and reaction" team, much like the Raven Guard. Khornate Blood Angels win their matchup against the loyalist Word Bearers, though.

GOLD FOR THE GOLDEN THRONE!
CORPSES FOR THE CORPSE GOD!

>>16472048
Salamander = Nurgle?

>>16472048
The Alpha Legion would be secret traitors undermining the Imperium from within, you mean.

>>16472198
Soooooo... Dark Angels?

>Alpha Legion
>people saying which side they'd be on
So in the canon continuity they remain loyal to the Emprah but pretend to be Chaos because Alpharius was told by some fortune tellers that the Imperium is better off if Horus wins.
But then, Horus loses and the Alpha Legion is considered the bad guys and are forced to be on the run.

But switching means that Alpha remains openly loyal to the Emprah, and sides with Horus? Or does that not siding with Horus and siding with Chaos for realz this time?

Fucking Alpha Legion.

I wonder. Just how would the Word Bearers react to the deification of the Emperor as loyal? Would they take over the role of the inquisition?

Or would the Emperor simply never have been deified if Horus hadn't turned?

>>16472198

> "The overthrow of the Emperor is Their greatest wish, so what I do, Daemon, from this moment on, I do for the Primordial Annihilators."

>Loyalist Iron Warriors
>Traitor Iron Hands
Wow it's fucking nothing.

>>16472260
They weren't "loyal to the Emperor," they were originally trying to genocide all mankind. That's about as far removed from being a loyalist as you can get; they make the rest of the Traitor Legions seem loyal, by comparison.

So wait... Who's side is the Alpha Legion official on?

Alpha Legion kicking Ultries's asses will finally get the praise it deserves.

>>16472334
>They weren't "loyal to the Emperor," they were originally trying to genocide all mankind

Means to an end. The destruction of mankind, they believed, would cause the destruction of Chaos. And believe that's what the Emperor wishes most of all.

>these names
And you guys are supposed to be imaginative
The Sanguinius Sacrilege
/thread

>>16472290
The word bearers (as far as I know) were responsible for the numerous emperor worshipping cults ( I belive including the one that became dominant) So I think he still would be deified

>>16472307
Traitor Iron Hands would be something, almost all becoming new tech horrors, instead of iron warriors I guess they would sport the most obliterators

If Alpha Legion isn't loyal why the fuck do they still scream FOR THE EMPRAH?

>>16472373
Traitor Iron Hands and Dark Mechanicus and Dark Iron men getting together could mean some big shit going on.

>>16472339
Yes, exactly.

>>16472398

>>16472339

It's intentionally left vague.

Whatever Alpharius' original intentions, I person doubt that 10 thousand years of exposure to Chaos would keep the Alpha Legion free of corruption.

>>16472409
They don't employ daemons.

And their daemon princes will be put down the moment the Emprah wakes up and the sun rises on the third day, order 66-style.

What about me, guise?

>>16472418
>They don't employ daemons.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the background that says this. Infact the 3.5 ed codex and Index Astartes article says that they gladly use daemons when they are able to.

>>16472409
But Omegon is still alive and able to guide the Legion

>>16472452
You fool, it's Omegon who's dead.

Omegon is the face, Alpharius is the shadow.

>>16472464

The twist:

[tghasnospoiler]The corpse the Ultries retrieved was Omegon, Roboute has became Alpharius's cockslave for more than 10 thousand years[/tghasnospoiler]

>>16472409
> exposure to Chaos

they aren´t based in the eye.
i´m pretty sure some of them are corrupted (whole companies maybe) but some other parts could have stayed pure, as well as officially loyal marines stay pure

>GW is too afraid of changing the status quo that we'll never see resolution of any of the fluff plot lines

>>16472448

but its "their" cultists that summon the demons i believe.

>>16472464
>>16472452
>>16472504

the ultramarines didn´t retrieved any body, therefore its unclear that any primarch died there.
maybe a regular marine/captain who disguised himself as alpharius/omegon
maybe there was no duel and girlyman just told the story to not look completely retarded for breaking his own codex and still loosing.

but keep in mind that this story was written before the legion novel, and so the writer didn´t knew about the twins thing.

>>16472574
Every Alpha legionnaires look like Alpharius.

He made it this way to purposely fuel paranoia and conspiracy.

DEATH TO THE ENEMIES OF THE FALSE EMPEROR!

>>16472553
The reason given is because they operate deep in imperial space far away from the eye, so they need their cultists to help summon them.

Space Wolves: Khorne (hate sorcerers, bezerkers)
Imperial Fists: Slaanesh (obsession with discipline becomes a obsession with pain, if not IF then Blood Angels)
Raven Guard: Tzeentch (sneaky)
Salamaders: Nurgle (both bro-tier)
Iron Hands: Dark Mechanicus, Necrons???
Dark Angels: Have a loyalist chapter lead by Chapter Master Cypher
Blood Angels: Sons of Horus equivelant, Black Rage shit
White Scars: Fuck if I know
Ultramarines: Alpha Legion

>>16472606
Or because they're really Loyalist and are putting on a front until Alpharius can enact his plan

>>16472580

exactly. in this index astartes article about the alpha legion was written that girlyman killed "alpharius" with a single strike... that is very unlikely because primarchs should have almost the same strength.
after knowing the legion novel (which was written years later) its most likely that it wasn´t one of the twins who died there (if this fight ever happend which is unclear according to that IA article).

>>16472606

yes, but this means the marines themself aren´t touched by chaos. they just use it as weapon.

>>16472616
Was there a warp storm ia Manus's death?

If there wasn't then that Roboute got trolled. Hard.

>>16472609

raven guard is either way alpha legion or night lords.
they have nothing to do with tzeentch.

ultramarines have nothing to do with the fighting style of the alpha legion. they would be the word bearers (switch chaos gods with the codex gods)

>>16472630

explain yourself

>>16472609
Alpha Legion: Write Codex Alpharius, full of actual tactics instead of "HONOR BULLSHIT ALSO DESTROY ALL UNITY BETWEEN CHAPTERS AND CHAPTER SPECIALITIES"
Thousand Sons: Pretty much the same as pre-heresy
Death Guard: Ditto
Word Bearers: Emperor's smackdown of them would result in them stopping the Imperial Cult from becoming powerful
World Eaters: Dunno
Emperor's Children: Try to become perfect through more esoteric means like cybernetics and Fabius Bile geneseed fucking around to make up for their failure to protect emperor
Sons of Horus: Pre-heresy?
Night Lords: SPACE COPS
Iron Warriors: Dunno

>>16472640
When Fulgrim beheaded Ferrus Manus, out from Manus's neck was a small warpstorm.

Basically, Primarchs are powered by a mini-warp engine.

Blood Angels would be ideal for Slaanesh.

Sanguinus is almost as faggy as Fulgrim.

So the Space Wolves fall to chaos.

The Legion that the Emperor used specifically to kill other Legions. The one that basically roflstomped every other SM chapter it came up against.

And these are now the guys besieging Terra. WHELP, I guess that's game set and match.

>>16472649
Iron Warriors would be like Imp. Fists and Imp Fist would be like Iron Warriors.

>>16472684
Thousand Sons would have bumprushed Space Wolves if they didn't fucking hesistate.

>>16472686
>imp fists
>not Iron Hands

>>16472632
Raven Guard is the legion I feel would be most tzeentchite, as it would be strange to have khorne, slaanesh and nurgle but not tzeentch. Also it's a reference to the /tg/ jokes about Alpha Legion being Ultramarines, and Gulliman is actually Omegon and whatnot. Seriously though, I agree that they would be word bearers, that or unchaotic like Night Lords and Alpha Legion.

>>16472660

oh i didn´t knew that. is it in the fulgrim novel?

there wasn´t such a thing mentioned in the alpha legions index astartes, but again, this article was written years before the HH novels.

I must tender my skepticism that Rogal Dorn would ever outright betray the Emperor. That's like the entirety of his character, loyalty to the Emperor. And not even in that way like that other guy had to deal with where he -worshipped- the emperor and got scolded for it constantly.

It's Rogal fucking Dorn. He must remain a constant.

>>16472699
Iron Warriors are siege troops, exactly like Imp. Fist, hell, that was the reason behind the rivalry between their Primarchs.

Iron Hands are the reverse of Emperor's Children, both seek to be stronger (though biotic AND mutation). Not to mention Ferrus Manus and Fulgrim used to bros then foes.

>>16472684
I doesn't seem to matter that much in the current status quo, does it?

>>16472712
Yes, it was in Fulgrim.

I speculate Horus didn't get affected by this warpstorm when he offed Sanguinus because he was being possessed by the warp gods themselves.

>>16472649

You're confusing SPACE COPS with SPACE BATMANS

>>16472703

true.

tzeentch is problematic because there is only one legion based on psykers and socerers. blood ravens maybe?

the alpha legions and the ultramarines are rivals, but their way of fighting is completly different. its not like the imperial fists - iron warrior (both great at sieges) rivallery. alpha und ultra are the complete opposite to each other

>>16472735
They would be both. Batcops.

>>16472742
>alpha und ultra are the complete opposite to each other
That's what makes them so great rivals.

Ultries are the standard soldiers who play by the rules. They have numbers and discipline.
Then the Alpha are the crazy guerilla guys with a lot of crazy ass plans.

>>16472732

of topic: is fulgrim (the novel) good?

>>16472765
Fulgrim's faggotry aside, I think so.

>>16472757

it simply comes down to striktly doctrine driven warfare against flexible and adaptable warfare.

alphas use guerilla tactics, but aren´t strictly bound to guerilla. they are pragmatic and do what is necessary to win

I can't think of anyway to make Lorgar "good".

Everyone hates him.
Hell, due to his low self-esteem I think he hates himself too.

>>16472793
Just make him pope and you're good to go.

>>16472792
Yes, yes, that's it.
Alpharius is the ever-evolving strategist while Roboute sticks his hard set of guidelines in every situation.

9000 hours in MSPaint

>>16472809
But The Emperor hates religions and religious organization.

I never thought that way about the Iron Hands and Emperor's Children before.

Iron Hands want to make become full machine because FLESH IS WEAK while Emperor's Children seek perfection through mutation.

Goddamn they are born to be rivals.

>>16472816
Emperor wont be around forever, after he gets golden throne have Lorgar use it to his advantage and be the Peter to the unintentional Emperors Jesus.

>>16472816
Rowboat, Dorn, and Sanguinius nigh-killed the Emprah, He can't really protest his new godhood.

>>16472816
Whenever the Emprah wakes up, boy, is he going to be pissed.

>>16472810

i love the fact that roboute had to break his own codex to stand a chance against the alpha legion and still gets his ass handed to him.

>>16472832
That's the reason why they are hunting down every last of the sensei.

>>16472811

nicely done

>Codex Astartes is a bunch of guidelines
And then Captain Titus is a sleeper Alpha legionnare.

The problem with the Dornian heresy is that Dorn would literally never betray the Emperor.

So obviously he'd get possessed instead. Though I think he might have the willpower and necessary ability to deny his desires that Fulgrim lacked, so dunno.

>>16472809
How the hell does that help??
>In an OOC moment of reasonableness, Emps realizes the can of sealed shitstorm that will go down if he censures Logar.
>Instead of ATHEISM CRACK DOWN, Emps reasons with Logar, teaching him to spread rational thought and asks him to let individual worlds decide their religious fate.
>Logar's "church" now serves as an adhoc humanitarian body, helping out lost human worlds.

Like that?

Also:
>A previously loyal primarch is shitpissed that Emps lets this slide.

>>16472863

this is why the inquisition wants a word with him

>>16472742

...and on that day did the Gulliman the Thrice-Damned see a vision of the Blasphemous Master of Pestilence and Decay who spake unto him, "You who seek order and who opposeth change in thine legion and in thine tactics, who doth see success through the path of repetition of that which has been proven in thy method, who is mocked by thine inconsistent brothers of a rival legion, know that I can bestow upon thee my favor and give thee the power to smash those who would naysay thy methods. If thou wouldst but bend the knee to my service, I shall give thee power to prove thy methods correct and true for all the Galaxy to see!"

It was then that, in his vanity, the vile traitor did bend the knee to the hated enemy whose name shall not be spoken, and was drawn in by his lies, and lies they were, for whilst the battle on Holy Terra waged, the treasonous Ultramarines did waylay and make war upon the Alpha Legion, but as the superior tactics of noble Alpharius began to take their toll on the traitorous wretches who followed his sadly misguided fellow primarch, the Dark Lord of Decay did abandon his newfound champion, and, in his cowardice, for cowards are they who turn from His light, and his hubris, for hubris it is to go against the legion of he who would go on to write the blessed Tactica Astartes, the traitor primarch took his closest followers and fled to join the rest of the vile traitors whilst the righteous Alpha Legion did purge the rest of the misguided Ultramarine filth from the planet.

>Previous posts TL;DR

If the legions of heretics are reversed...The Heresy will pretty much be a joke.

Think about this:

It take Adeptus Custodes + Silent Sisters + Space Wolves to take down Thousand Sons.
Even that, both side still suffered great loss. And that only resulted in Thousand Sons unable to join much of the fight, which caused the Stale Mate at Terra.

Without Silent Sisters, no single legions stood a chance with Thousand Sons. With Thousand Sons' full force in the fight. There isn't much to fight about.

Result: Emperor is alive and well.

>>16472888
And what if 1000k sons happen to be one of the 3 legions ambushed?

>>16472865
Cursed Pain Glove.
>Gift from conquered world
>Dorn tries it on, experiences pain unlike anything else
>Trains with it to perfection, legion starts competing to see which marine can last the longest
>Dorn falls when he kills his second-in-command, about to break Dorn's record. He goes into the cursed pain glove as penance and comes out... different.

If anyone thinks these ideas suck, let me know and I'll go back to lurking.

>>16472886
Oh god Nurgle Ultramarines.

That is a so goddamn fitting.

You deserve a goddamn medal.

>whilst the righteous Alpha Legion did purge the rest of the misguided Ultramarine filth from the planet.

this is exactly what happened.

>>16471206
>poorlittlewhiteguardsman.jpeg

>>16472913
Why thank you! I'd like to take this moment to thank my cat, whose fuzzy meowing makes me smile.

Who would be strong enough to face a 4-gods possessed Sanguinus?

inbe4 Emp, Horus and Magnus tag-team with Alpharius cover

>>16472816
>>16472816
he's too busy being a psuedocorpse on the golden throne, and with the recent rebellion/schism/heresy/whatever someone needs to step up and provide order to things

Lorgar is just the person to do it. Plus I could see him spinning the whole 'Emperor denying his own divinity' as something to venerate because it gives an example of humility for the common folk to follow.

>>16472888

But if the 1K Sons hadn't been censured and beaten raw by the Space Wolves, would they have turned to sorcery so quickly?

Remember, much of the traitor legion's power came from the chaos gods.

Imagine Jaghatai Khan riding into battle with the winds of change within his marines' bikes, and the 1K Sons with librarians and little else.

>>16472958
I think Magnus alone could turn the tide of the battle if he didn't hesistate.

I mean, he's near the Emp's level of psyker.

>>16472946
Horus alone, but closely followed by Emps (basically, Sanguinus and Emperor reversed). It would be a lot closer than Chaos Horus vs. Sanguinus, and the Emperor would straight kill him the second he saw Horus dead.

>>16472958
Shit, if you look at the fluff, the White Scar Librarians are extremely important in their culture. They could be tzeentchite I guess.

The big problem with Lorgar is exactly his low self-esteem.

If he believes himself to be great enough then he wouldn't need to worship anyone else.

>>16472888
well, that's assuming that other shit doesnt go down to make it so the heresy only gets narrowly defeated

>>16472901
There are people in Thousand Son can see possible futures. Therefore, the ambush scheme will most likely fail.

Even if they were ambushed, the traitors will not nearly have as much time to prepare their assault to Terra due to Magnus' psyker ability to warn the Emperor.

>>16472994
he could have a moment where he mans the fuck up near the end of the heresy to take command of shit and he spends the rest of his days trying to make up for his weaknesses

Seeing Ferrus Manus killing Fulgrim would be pleasant.

I hate to see he turns traitor but it's awwright if it's against Fulgrim.

>>16473003
yes but this time the chaos gods will be there to mess up their visions

Who would be the Lion's rival?

He was kind of a dick with Russ but Russ will likely turn Chaos too so...

>>16473032
they're still rivals

>>16473032
Think World Eaters vs Emperors Children.

What about Konrad and his visions?

If he stays loyal then the upsurper is gonna have a hard time.

>>16473032

luther would stay loyal and the fallen too or vice versa depending who you think is the loyal one in the canon universe

I say the Lion turned Chaos right at that fight with Russ.

Russ was just laughing goofy but the Lion was still mad.

Khronate shit right there.

>>16473074
The loyalist Dark Angels under Luther would be the reverse-Heresy universe's Blood Ravens equivalent, just with less kleptomania and more homosex.

>>16473081
mean the chaos blood ravens are busying looting the fuck out of everything they can find

>>16473100
Blood Ravens would be something like renegade 1K Sons, Raven Guard and Night Lords.

>>16473124

That's because the Blood Ravens were a renegade chapter of the Thousand Sons in Relic canon anyway. Jeeze.

world eaters - blood angels (bloodshed)
emperors children - iron hands (perfection)
alpha legion - ultramarines (opposite)
night lords - raven guard (scary)
word bearers - ?
iron warriors - imperial fists (siege rivals)
death guard - ?
thousand sons - space wolves (sorcs vs melee)
lunar wolves - ?

where to fit in the salamanders, dark angels and white scars?

>>16473124
Oh forget the Night Lords, only Raven Guards.

>>16473131
I'd personally make
Lunar Wolves - Dark Angels
Word Bearers - Salamanders
Death Guard - White Scars
in the threat-scale
But yeah, they don't fit.

>>16473131
I thought the Dark Angels and Alpha Legion were counterparts.
First VS Last Legion
Secret Heresy VS Secret Loyalty

>>16473175
Nah Alpha Legion and Ultries are made for each other.

Even their symbols rival, one being Alpha while Ultries is reverse Omega.

>>16473175

sounds reasonable.

but this would leave the ultramarines without a match?
maybe lunar wolves?

>>16472958

...Dark indeed was that day when Vile Leman Russ the Bloodthirsty gathered his warriors and went forth to Prospero. For though Him on Terra had told him to bring his brother Magnus to account for his misdeeds, instead the Bastard of Fenris did listen to the whispers of the Mad Lord on the Throne of Skulls and make total war on his brother in a dark shadow of what would soon come to pass throughout the Imperium. Tragic it was as Astartes battled Astartes. The blood-maddened Space Wolves butchering the learned and wise Thousand Sons, blasphemously claiming that the Most Holy and Beneficent Emperor had commanded their extermination, and, knowing what he did from his foresight, Magnus with the greatest sorrow gathered what survivors he could and did make that great sacrifice for humanity when he fled the world he had cared for so much to go and seek his Father.

Upon reaching Holy Terra and being brought before Him whose light guides us all, Blessed Magnus did fall prostrate before the Emperor and wept. "I only sought to warn you of the vile treasons of mine brother, why hast thou loosed the hounds of Fenris to shatter my legion, when any fault lies but with me? Surely the world given me n trust needn't burn in punishment for a sin I committed only out of concern for You."

>>16473201 cont.

And Lo! In that moment the Emperor stood in silence for a time before, after a time, saying, "My son, great was the damage you wrought upon works you knew not, and wrong was it of you to stray from my edict, but in the end, you did what you did for love of Me. I ordered only that you be humbled and brought before me to answer for thine actions, but now I see in the violence of your brother the truth in your words. Thus do I modify my edict, sorcery shall still be forbidden, but the path of the librarian I shall now accept, with the caveat that you and yours must train those of your brothers' legions who wouldst walk that most treacherous of paths. Rise, my son. Know my pardon, and prepare yourself, for if thy warning is any indication, much must be done before the greatest of the darkness to come befalls us."

>>16473191
I thought they hated the Word Bearers.

>>16473191
The only suitable march for Luna Wolves would be Blood Angels and Imperial Fists due to the blood rivals between their Primarchs.

>>16473217

they also hate the alpha legion

White scars and salamanders are kinda out of touch compared to the other chapters.

Hell, Iron Hands hate salamanders for being pussies in that Dropsite Massacre.

>>16473222

how would you sort them?

>>16473191

Word Bearers. Ultramarines recognize the Emperor as a man, and Guilliman was more focused on codifying the laws and strategies of the land, while Lorgar was focused upon the Emperor as a god, and set about codifying creeds and worship organizations for him.

The fact that the Emperor did not out-and-out punish Lorgar for creating religion under the Emperor's rule would likely rankle Guilliman, and the Ultramarines would be a Traitor Legion not truly associated with Chaos and likely trying to keep themselves from working with them. The territory they control would be a secular Eye of Terror.

>>16473245
IMO:
World Eaters - White Scars (barbarian)
Emperors children - Iron hands (perfection)
Alpha legion - Ultramarines (strategist)
Night lords - Raven guard (assault)
Word bearers - Dark Angels (no friggin idea)
Iron warriors - Imperial fists (siege rivals)
Death guard - Salamanders (cruelty vs. nice, I guess?)
Thousand sons - Space wolves (sorcs vs melee)
Lunar wolves - Blood Angels (Primarchs favored by the Emperor)

>>16473277

death guard - raven guard (tragic fate)
night lords - salamanders (cruelty - nice guys)

>>16473298
It's shitty that there are only distinguishing factors for Salamanders:
1. They have black skins
2. They are lol nice

Jesus christ, can't sort these guys anywhere.

And Dark Angels being Knights in space when everyone is pretty much space knights.

>>16473277
IMO:
Word bearers - Ultramarines (two numerically largest legions, both out in the galactic east, both prefer structured tactics)
Alpha legion - Raven guard (Covert ops, though one prefers multiple strikes and the other a single killing blow)
Death guard - Salamanders (Both are about resilience and self-reliance)

>>16473298

this makes sense

>>16473328

raven guard and night lords make more sense

>>16473343
If you're going with the assault/jump pack thing, it can just as easily be blood angels and night lords. The night lords weren't about stealth covert ops like the raven guard and alphas were, they made sure you knew they were there to scare the shit out of you.

>>16473354
>>16473343

actually the night lords and salamanders thing with cruelty vs nice sounds ok

Dark Angels's only canon rival would be Space Wolves and the Fallen.

>>16473354
I read in one nove Konrad personally out-assaulted the assaulting Corax "Fly fast, little raven" so the raven guard vs night lords ain't terrible out of nowhere.

You can even make out Death Guard - Dark Angels due to the death motif vs angelic shit thingie

probably the guys at gw didn´t thought this through like we do

>>16473254

So the Ultramarines would just be boring, bland, and vanilla?
WHO COULD HAVE SEEN THIS COMING?

>>16473328

salamanders live among civilians and are considered bro-tier and care about people

alpha legion works with civilians, cultists and guardsmen to achive their goals.

maybe this could be a match

Fuck yeah Dornian Heresy.

>>16473419
More like Salamanders all start breathing fire and growing lizard heards and decide the galaxy needs to burn while they fuck their flamer of tzeentch girlfriends.

>>16473405
Dornian Ultramarines secede from the Imperium. Ultramar becomes its own Empire. Their technology advances. They don't fall to chaos so much as become hereteks.

>>16473449
They also become the most technologically advanced power in the setting, surpassing even the Tau, the Eldar at the height of their empire, the Necrons, and almost equaling the dark age of technology.

>>16473405

They'd probably be Dawkinsmarines in a Dornian Heresy situation, is what I was getting at.

>>16472865
It'd be cool if Dorn gets killed and they stuff a daemon in his armor to trick his marines. Eventually the daemon gets so big that Dorn becomes a "daemon primarch" except not since he's this huge fucking mobile daemon fortress composed of a shitton of daemons fused to his armor to reinforce it over the years.

Imperial Fists have no real planet in the Warp, they all live inside him and travel between the planets.

>>16473449
I don't like the armor. Sure it's cool looking but it isn't really Ultra. Not blingy enough.

>>16473449

this armour is supposed to be better than the MK VII armour, the mk vii is round where this is straight.
therefore inferior

>>16471104

Huh.

That Dornian heresy stuff was genuinely interesting, and surprisingly well put together.

>>16473550
It's fan drawn. Otherwise materials are a factor, who cares.

>>16473422
Its alright, though one could do better. WHEN THE HELL ARE THEY DOING PART TWO ANYWAY?

>>16473575

why don´t you register and offer you help?

Dornian Heresy was utter ass.

>>16473491
Basic ultramarines aren't blingy either.

>>16473575
Please, register and do better. I'd love to read your better writing.

>>16473588
I said one could do better, not me. I may come up with better ideas, but I can't actually go through with them like they did, because I'm good at worldbuilding but I suck at writing.

>>16473370
Not sure if he out assaulted him as Lorgar (whiny little bitch that he is) was there as well, so Corax was getting out of a 2 v 1 primarch match up. The way it was worded I got the impression that Corax and Curze were two sides of the same coin.

>>16472428

Feels as though the people who cared about Cypher left the company.

Namely, Andy Chambers.

>>16473755
Yeah, Konrad was assaulting Corax who was assaulting Lorgar.

Corax got the fuck out right when Konrad joined the fray through.

>>16474047
Isn't it implied that Cypher is trying to get to Terra to repent for the fallen to the Emperor?

The Dronian Heresy was pretty bad, mostly based on which god the legions choose.

Nurglite Blood Angels? Slaaneshi White Scars?

And why the hell did they change the Word Bearers colours?

>Loyalist Conrad

All of my imperial dollars.

>>16474115

iirc they were trying to keep closer to the pre-Heresy colors just slightly lightened it.

>>16472609

>White Scars: Fuck if I know

Pic related said hi.

>>16474115

It wasn't terribad, but it wasn't that gripping either (just in my opinion, naturally).

What I'm wondering right now though, is why are people trying to pair off legions with each other as counterparts? Why not just create something new from a traitor legion and why do the legions have to swap over anyway?

I like loyalist Imperial Fists and wasn't that convinced by the Dornian Heresy's take on Dorn's fall - why not Rubuda Goolyman, or Sanguinius? Sanguinius the Fallen Angel, Lord of Hosts and Exalted of the Four sounds pretty scary for the loyalists.

How did it happen? The usual route of pride with jealousy at Horus' place as warmaster, or maybe the subtle whisperings of a warp shadow. There's more than one way to tell an 'alternative history' of the Heresy, so why not try some stuff out that's not so obvious!

Otherwise, cool thread. Pic semi-related.

>>16474115
Because literally nothing was even slightly thought through. Ultramarines bullshit was full faggotarded. Everyone (EVERYONE) important in the history of ever was a Marine.
It was fucking nonsensical.
Oh, and somehow DORN is Horus' loyalist counterpart. REALLY?

Master Traitor Legion - Blood Angels (Strongest primarch)
Spiritual Leader Legion - Ultramarines (THE CODEX CHAOS SUPPORTS THIS ACTION)
Khornate Legion - Space Wolves (BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD WOLF)
Nurglite Legion - Imperial Fists (Immovable object)
Slaaneshii Legion - Iron Hands (Perfection)
Tzaanian Legion - Salamanders (Glorious flames of change)
Trickster Legion - Dark Angels
Unremarkable generic bad guy legions - Raven Guard, White Scars

Ascendant Primarchs: Russ (The Great Beast), Dorn (The Fortress of Stagnation), Ferrus (The Hand of Slaanesh), Vulkan (The Flame of Change), Gulliman (The Word of Darkness), Khan (The Doomrider)

>>16474115
>Slaaneshi White Scars
Seems awesome to me
>Nurglite Blood Angels
I-I... don't know. Even if they're going for Nurglite BA, they should've made them more... vampiric undead and less zombie undead.

So.

What about Ollanius Pius? Would he have gone to Chaos as well?

>>16474296

We're imagining SMs being switched, I don't think fate would change much for Pius.

>>16474353
Well, that's good. Chaos would have instantly won then.

I mean, if Pius had turned to Emperor instead at the fateful moment, he wouldn't have seen the travesty of his favourite fallen sone, would not have been inspired to destroy him, and would instead have died ignobly.

>>16474296
Well since the Emperor loved Horus much more than he did Sanguinius, odds are Pius would not even had a shot at glory.
The moment Big E saw dead Horus he would wtfpwn Sanguinius so hard it wouldn't even have time to be funny. And since Magnus never broke the Throne's warp portal, chances are Emps would keep on kicking ass and taking names, until he was swarmed and overpowered, or burned himself out.

>>16474249
>Spiritual Leader Legion

Guilliman needs to be the only ascended traitor primarch, thus claiming the title of SPIRITUAL LIEGE above all others. He also gets hulk fists.

>>16474212
>Oh, and somehow DORN is Horus' loyalist counterpart. REALLY?
Kind of? This is one thing that I didn't have much of a problem with. Dorn is the only primarch Horus acknowledged he would not be able to defeat (specifying that in a siege against Dorn's forces, Horus would at most be able to stalemate them) and the contest on Terra was effectively between Dorn's defense and Horus' assault until Horus dropped his shields.

So in terms of generalship I would say Dorn is the closest counterpart to Horus. If you want a symbolic figure counterpart, then it's Sanguinius.

>>16474394
>Siege
That does favor Dorn. Sanguinius was the 'perfect' primarch.

Wait, if SM's are switched what does this mean of others? Does that mean Eldrad Ulthran and Fallen Phoenix are switched as well?

>>16474296
Depends whom Horus' loyalist-traitor counterpart is. If it's Guilliman then Pius would awaken to the glory of his true spiritual liege, disowning the Emperor.

>>16474403

That depends, did the Horus Heresy really fuck with any of the alien races at all during the face?

Sangy and Girlyman being traitors make *perfect* sense.

We all know Sangy was a warp-infested unstable mutant.

And Girlyman was maaaddd jealous with Horus and his conquer to the point he keeps talking about his brothers in front of the Emprah.

>>16474417
And we all know the Iron Hands are behind those chaos androids.

>>16474417
>talking ill

>>16474403
>Eldrad Ulthran fallen to Slaanesh.

That's it, everyone out of the universe.

>>16474427
Huh? I thought the Dark Iron Men were waaaay back?
The Iron Hands are very loyal anyway.

Ferrus Manus raged his ass out when hearing Fulgrim's traitorous proposal.

>>16474430
>not Tzeentch
Slaanesh may want his soul, but Tzeentch would appreciate a schemer of his level way more.

>>16474430
Hmm, Taldeer, hmm, Macha, hmmm

>>16474432
get your things straight

the Iron Men never fell to Chaos

the Chaos Androids were made by the Chaos Squats

And IIRC, members of the Legio Cybernetica sided with Horus.

>>16474430

But I just got comfy! Goddammit, can we stop at an ihop on the way to the next universe?

>>16474437
Woot.

>>16474434
All Eldar go to Slaanesh regardless.

Wasn't that the point? I've never seen one go to anyone else despite whatever their personality might harbor.

Iron Hands turn out to be a bunch of Null/Blanks.

Perfect fucking sense.

>>16474432
I don't think you've quite grasped the idea of this thread.

>>16474442
Yeah, if they die. But what if he started worshipping Tzeentch while he was still alive?

>>16474446
I know it's Bizzaro-40K! But I though we could at least get the pre-heresy personalities right...

>>16474438
It's cool. The Trans-dimensional House of Pancakes is always open.

Are we counting GKs as a legion for this?

>>16474463
...
Traitor GK
oh god

traitor draigo
oh god

>>16474394

dorn lost to the iron warriors. see iron cage

What about dem Bolter Bitches?

>>16474478
Dorn wasn't at his best mental condition in that battle.

He basically went berserk.

>>16474448
So your saying an Eldar can worship Khorn and Nurgle and Tzeentch, the prerequisite being that they don't die?

Wouldn't that make Nurgle Eldar immortal and thus make Slaanesh EXTREMELY pissed off that he's getting short-changed some souls?

On that note, if it's possible as you say, why hasn't anyone ever seen an Eldar of a different stripe?

I may have to make a small grandpappy Eldar army just to troll.

>>16474466
>Traitor Draigo
A marine so possessed with Daemon he should not even be able to manifest in Realspace, but still walks it with ease?
So pretty much a guy seconds away from exploding into a greater daemon at any given time?

>>16474484

thats no excuse

>>16474489
What? Are you implying Eldar can't worship Chaos at all? You get Chaos Eldar, dude. Most of them are Crone World survivors.

>>16474497
Come on.

Dorn is best at defense.

He's forced to attack in that battle.

>>16474480
Either Lorgar is still alive and acting as LORD POPE OF AWESOME, or his Legion does it for him.
Vandire would get his shit slapped well before he could become a real problem, since he'd be facing a million-strong "NO WE TELL YOU HOW TO WORSHIP" legion of religion police.
There would never be a reason for the Adepta Sororitas to exist.

>>16474430
>He falls to slaanesh AND tzeench creating slantench, the god of awesomic raping schematings.
>They are allied with:
>Necrons of khorne
SHIT HIT'D THE FAN.
EVERYBODY RUN THE FUCK OUT OF THIS UNVIERSE!

>>16474478
>The 'collective pain' needed to cleanse the Chapter was decided by Dorn to be an Iron Warriors' fortress, the Iron Cage. Perturabo had built the massive fortifications to mock the Imperial Fists, and Dorn led his most die-hard followers in a siege that would last for several weeks. Followers of the Iron Warriors claim that the Imperial Fists suffered a crushing defeat, and that Dorn and his legion would have been wiped out if Perturabo hadn't prolonged Dorn's suffering so long that the Ultramarines managed to intervene.

>Imperial records indicate otherwise. The Imperial Fists had always been masters of siege craft, and even unprepared and at a disadvantage they fought like lions. Dorn stood as a giant in their midst, his mind clear with purpose after years of doubt and guilt. The Iron Warriors would have had to sacrifice their lives and Primarch to destroy the Imperial Fists, a price they weren't ready to pay.

Also Dorn was off his fucking nut in that battle.

>>16474508
But...maybe...Slaneesh cultists?

I want my Miriel Sabathiel chapter.

>>16474501

he wasn´t forced at all.
his ego made him attack and he gets his ass handed to him

>>16474515
Honor-wise, his hand is forced.

If he didn't do that battle, everyone would make a joke out of him.

>>16474511

'Yeah, we totally meant to do that. Pfft, those pansy Iron Warrioras could never actually defeat the Fists! Dorn could have kicked Perturabo's ass at any point during that whole thing, he just didn't feel like it! Now stop questioning and get back to work, citizen.'

>>16474521

>honor-wise

well, this works with opponents that follow the same codex of honor.
i wouldn´t say that iron warriors or chaos in general are known for their honorable style of fighting

>>16474511
Lol, if by "stood as giants" they mean crawled on their bellies in the dust using the corpses of their battle brothers for cover... And if "stood in their midst" means separated and fighting as individuals while Dorn rampages around the deathtrap calling Perterabo's name, never to be answered, while the Iron Warriors continue to slaughter them one by one.

That's pretty hilarious, Imperial propaganda.

>>16474542
The Iron Warriors are actually fucking disciplined. Perty trained them very well.

Not to mention this rival goes waaaay back in the Great Crusade.

>>16474545
>>16474532
>No, my side is right, your side is wrong, because
I'm point out its up for interpretation.

>>16474463
Just have the mass gellar field protecting titan break. When it reappears, it is a blasted ruin with no signs of life. And hundreds years later, an army of mighty sorcerers called the Grey Legion lead by Master Janus start popping up through Warpstorms. Then he becomes the Abaddon equivalent, and what was once Mary Sue is now failure.

At least Dorn lost honorably.

Ultramarines had their full strength after HH and still lost to Alpha Legion, which is the last and likely fewest number Founding chapter.

>>16474565
I find it weird that after this defeat the Ultries themselves didn't question the Codex since even its creator broke the rules in order to survive.

This defeat is like one of the two major losses of Ultries, the other being the first Nid invasion.

>>16474551
>The Iron Warriors are actually fucking disciplined. Perty trained them very well.

not going to troll you BUT this has nothing to do with honorable fighting at all.
the alpha legion is well trained and very disciplined as well and absolute nobody would call their way of fighting honorable right?

it was dorns ego, and pertis knowlegde about it that led to the battle for the iron cage.
it would have worked the same way if the roles were switched because of this old rival thing

>>16474595
Well yeah, Alpha Legion can win the war before the war even starts it all.

Hell, that's the way they fight.

>>16474565

not only the lost. they lost after girlyman had to break his own fucking holy codex to have a slight chance at all

>>16474594

Breaking the rules got him into the whole mess in the first place. If Guilliman hadn't Deep Striked into the Alpha Legion's HQ he wouldn't have been stuck in then middle of the mountains with only about half his forces and completely surrounded by the Alpha Legion.

>>16474500
Khorn worshiping Eldar make no sense man.

I mean MANLY Eldar? Eldar Beserkers? What the fuck?

>>16474594
Especially because in Age of Darkness Gulliman himself said the Codex was but a guideline to one of his captains. Dunno how modern day "CODEX IS ALL NOT USING CODEX IS HERESY" propagated.

>>16474608
Oh so he was using Steel Rain, no wonder.

>>16474608

yeah, he got trolled pretty hard by alpharius with this one.
probably the "primarch" girlyman killed with one single strike was a normal marine.

>>16474612
No manly Eldar? Explain the Phoenix Lords.

>>16474612
Eldar berserker = howling banshee.

>>16474603
>>16474594

i´m wondering if matt ward will change this event in the next future.
maybe a novel about that battle from ultramarine perspective or a story in the next codex ultramarines

>>16474612
>Even Craftworld Eldar devote themselves so entirely to an aspect of war and slaughter that they can become totally consumed by it
>There is a blood sacrifice to summon an Avatar who is accompanied by said war-consumed Eldar
Yes, Khorne Eldar. Stop being an idiot and taking /tg/ jokes and nonsense as fucking in-game canon.

>>16474613
It's a joke on organized religion you twit

>>16474621

Dunno, it actually being Alpharius just made the Al seem that much more badass (before the whole twins thing).

Other Legions: 'Woe is us, our Primarch is dead! We shall never recover from this terrible loss!
AL: 'Boohoo. Now let's go kil those blue faggots.'

>>16474639
Hell, in some ancient fluff Khaine is implied ot be an aspect (or possibly a daemon) of Khorne.

>>16474613

1st millenium: you can act according to the codex
2nd: you should act ....
3rd: you really should ...
4th: you have to ...
...

the transmission changed over the 10k years.

So which side would the Blood Ravens be in this reversed setting.

>>16474661
Chaos, of course.

Azariah Kyrias be exterminating dem traitor 4th company.

>>16474652
It's still a vague suggestion; it's probably more so in WHFB fluff where Chaos isn't quite so derptastically evil.

Yes Eldar can host the whole range of Chaos goodness. Also there's Isha.

>Isha is the Eldar goddess of fertility, life and growth. Though long thought to be destroyed by Slaanesh, she was in fact taken captive by the Dark Prince. Nurgle took pity on her and waged war against Slaanesh to 'rescue' her. Nurgle took her back to his domain and keeps Isha caged in his workshop, testing his latest plagues and diseases on her. Isha can cure herself of these afflictions, but Nurgle gets an idea of their potency anyway. Isha whispers the cures to these new diseases into the universe so that mortals might know them.

Nurgle Eldar are rather easy to do. Some zombied-up Eldar army would be awesome to see.

Also Slaanesh SUCKS.

>>16474652
You're speaking of Warhammer Fantasy

>>16474672
In the great Aurelian War, the Chapter Master of the Thousand Sons Kyras destroyed the traitor "Blood Raven" forces lead by Gabriel Angelos, thanks to the assistance of Sons of Horus Captain Araghast and Word Bearers Chaplain Eliphas.

>>16474661
Only change is that they are no longer gifted stuff... they just steal it.

>>16474661
Do you even have to ask at this point?

>>16474652
>Hell, in some ancient fluff Khaine is implied ot be an aspect (or possibly a daemon) of Khorne.

He still is a part of Khorne. That was the entire reason why Slaanesh couldn't devour him. That doesn't make him anymore a Chaos God than the Emperor or Gork and Mork though.

Slaaneshi Iron Hands would be kind of cool.
Like the Emperor's Children but obsessed with perfecting themselves via augmentation.
Also daemonette machine spirits. CLANK CLANK

>>16474661

the one with the most gifts

>>16474646

but it leaves one big question:
how can a primarch die by one single strike? shouldn´t they be almost equal in strength?

So I assume this means Ursarkar Creed and Cadia fell to Chaos?

>>16474721
>Also daemonette machine spirits.
That would be fucking hilarious.

"Brother-Techmarine, the Land Raider isn't working again."
"Have you tried offering it porn?"

>>16474783

Tech-ette 1: "Damn machine spewed machine oil all over me."
Tech-ette 2: "That's not machine oil."

>>16475187
There's a point where this needs to stop and we clearly passed it.

>>16474773
Nah, he single handedly out strength Khorne, Out schemes the bit T, out sex Slaanesh, and wins Nurgle at being dirty.
He is the last bulwark against chaos!
He is Unskar Creed, the Imperial Hero.
The legends sez that he killed his own death.
Just fo' shit and giggles.
>>16476903
We should shut up or techy will come.